Welcome back to another episode of Breaking Battlegrounds. With Chuck Warren out this week, co-host Sam Stone was joined by guest host Sean Noble, host of Light Beer, Dark Money. Together, they welcomed a fascinating guest: Gary Saul Morrison, Lawrence B. Dumas Professor of the Arts and Humanities at Northwestern University and co-author of Sense and Sensibility.

Morrison recently published an essay in The Free Press titled “Why the Revolution Never Ends,” and on this episode, he walked listeners through its central thesis: Marxism hasn’t died — it’s simply been reinvented.

“What Lenin would have said,” Morrison explained, “is that the prime criterion for any action in Marxism-Leninism is: does it work? Does it succeed? Does it help you gain power?”

In the 20th century, class was the defining line between “oppressor” and “oppressed.” But in today’s politics, those categories no longer carry the same mobilizing power. Instead, Morrison argues, modern radicals have shifted to identity-based divisions. Through the concept of intersectionality, countless new categories are constantly added, ensuring fresh battle lines and endless moral outrage.

This is why we see unlikely alliances — for example, gay activists siding with groups like Hamas, which fundamentally oppose their existence. Morrison suggests this happens because ideological “packages” eliminate the need for critical thought. People don’t evaluate issues independently; they sign onto a movement wholesale, contradictions and all.

Ultimately, Morrison warns, the revolution doesn’t end because its engine is perpetual division. New categories and conflicts will always be invented to keep society fractured — and the movement alive.

Transcript

**Sam Stone: **Thank you so much for joining us. And as always, jumping right in with our first guest, someone we're very excited to talk to, Gary Saul Morrison is the Lawrence B. Dumas Professor of the Arts and Humanities at Northwestern University and co-author of Sense and Sensibility.

And he's had some very interesting recent pieces, Sean, that we wanted to touch on here on the program, including most recently, why the revolution never ends.

**Sean Noble: **Well, Gary, thank you so much for being here.

**Gary Saul Morrison: **Well, thank you for having me.

**Sean Noble: **You had a couple weeks ago, you had a piece in the Free Press, Why the Revolution Never Ends, where you set up the premise that Marxism hasn't died, it's just changed costumes. How do you, walk us through, you know you’re a historian of communism. Walk us through the breakdown of how today's radicals have rebranded for this new generation.

**Gary Saul Morrison: **Yes, well, what they have done is something that Lenin would have said that you need to do, not stick so closely to the dogma that it doesn't work for a given audience. Because the prime criterion for any action in Marxism, Leninism is does it actually work? Does it succeed? Does it help you gain power? And so...

since class, which is what they used to focus on, was the prime category separating oppressor from oppressed, that wouldn't work so well now. So they have picked many other categories, you know, we have a whole plethora of them that, you know, that we get and more are being added every day, bring them together and you call it intersectionality. And the point precisely is

that there will always be more categories because you can always renovate the basic model and everybody who wants to be on the right side immediately knows what to think. And you can always provoke moral outrage that way.

**Sam Stone: **Is it easier to fracture people when you can divide them into smaller groups? In other words, is it harder to create a conflict that's, for instance, the proletariat versus the wealthy? Is it easier to start fracturing people when you can focus on smaller group identities?

**Gary Saul Morrison: **That's an interesting question. I mean, the point is to create a lot of hostility. But you need a lot of people to do it. But it can be to some total of small groups, as long as they recognize each other as on the same side. That's why you get odd things like gay activists siding with Hamas, which of course would kill them.

because you know immediately all the good guys are on one side, all the bad guys are on the other. So it saves you from thinking. You know in advance what to think. Even if it winds up to be absurd, you just do it because you don't analyze each issue. You sign on for a package and then whatever is in the package, you take.

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